Photography 35mm

Question:

Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Someone had posted to the mailing list the details of a really nice trip they took. Just as we have on this newsgroup, that mailing list has members from countries around the world. So I made a suggestion. Everyone on the list couldn’t afford to take a long or exotic vacation, but we all COULD recount our own experiences on things like day trips or little mini-vacations that take place close to (our own) home. Even if those details seem mundane and familiar to US, there are sure to be other members of the group who will find the information to be new and interesting. We got some amazing posts from people, once they started to provide details of even little excursions. So… I’ll suggest the same thing here. Anyone who’s going on even a brief jaunt might want to consider posting the details here, even if they hadn’t originally intended to write about it. Then we can ALL keep having virtual vacations on a regular basis. ) Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o)

Response:

We got some amazing posts from people, once they started to provide details of even little excursions. So… I’ll suggest the same thing here. Anyone who’s going on even a brief jaunt might want to consider posting the details here, even if they hadn’t originally intended to write about it. Then we can ALL keep having virtual vacations on a regular basis. ) Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o)

Well, OK. =)  In 1999, I took a vacation with my dad to Big Bend National Park in Texas and a couple places in New Mexico and Arizona, and I took lots of pictures.  All I had was a 35mm point-n-shoot, nothing fancy, but it got the job done.  The photography-shop lady who developed my film was quite envious of my having been to places where I could take pictures like those. Naturally, the pictures are on my web site: http://web.mr-happy.com/~jfb/ablum/vacation1999/ I think I did a reasonably good job of captioning the pictures, but I didn’t write much about anything I didn’t take a picture of, so I’ll relate one of the more eventful, uhh, events. I think we were about an hour away from Las Cruces, New Mexico, maybe on our way to Silver City, when my dad pulled over to walk the dog (an event I always looked forward to, as having half of a German Shepherd on your lap for several hours can get a bit old).  I didn’t even get out of the truck that time, but my dad came to my window and told me, "Shut off the truck… we’re gonna be here awhile."  Uh-oh. I got out to see that one of the camper tires was mostly gone, and that which was not gone was utterly shredded.  The flailing tire had also ripped up the wheel well, above which is the compartment under the main bed inside the camper… which is where my dad kept the cash stash, among other things.  Everything was covered in rubber dust, but nothing seemed to be missing.  We didn’t notice the blowout when it happened because the trailer has two axles, so there was still enough support.  So on goes the spare trailer tire, and into Las Cruces we go.  We somehow managed to find an open tire store on a Sunday, too, so we were hardly even inconvenienced by the whole thing, at least compared to how it could have gone. The best part of it, for sure, was finding the Aguirre Springs National Recreation Area just outside of Las Cruces.  We spent two nights there and did a lot of hiking.  The elevation made for a nice break, too, as it was cooler there (10-15 C/50s F) than Texas or Arizona were, so the hiking was far easier.  (I don’t deal well with heat even when I’m sitting still.)  Always good when something crappy turns into a very nice weekend. Anyway, enjoy the pictures. Jeff

Response:

I went on a hiking trip that included Sahuaro Nat’l Monument & the Cochise stronghold. So far, the only time I’ve been to a desert. Saw some neat animals. Did you see a roadrunner? We went to Sonoran Desert Museum, too, which is really just an enclosed part of the desert, not a building. Katz

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Donna, I love that idea. Since I changed jobs 3 1/2 years ago, I get a measley 2 weeks’ vacation. Don’t get to go on any big trips. I want Alaska to be my next big trip. Katz, who stays at home w/the furkids

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I went on a hiking trip that included Sahuaro Nat’l Monument & the Cochise stronghold.

Neat places, aren’t they?  My memory of the Cochise Stronhold is a bit tainted, though, as we went on some awful 10-mile hike in the desert sun.  Early November, 32C/90F, more than I can handle sitting still. But it was still really interesting. So far, the only time I’ve been to a desert. Saw some neat animals. Did you see a roadrunner?

I don’t remember if I saw any in AZ, but the first campground we stayed at in Big Bend was full of them, the one near/in Boquillas Canyon.  I got two pictures of them on one hike, too. We went to Sonoran Desert Museum, too, which is really just an enclosed part of the desert, not a building.

Yes!  I remember trying to watch for all the hummingbirds in the aviary.  I loved that whole place. Jeff

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Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o)

I’ll be going on a trip in April… nothing terribly special – my LLL, John, and I are going to work an art show in Huntsville, Alabama.  We always have a great time when we travel and I usually report back Jill

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Did you see a roadrunner? I don’t remember if I saw any in AZ, but the first campground we stayed at in Big Bend was full of them, the one near/in Boquillas Canyon.  I got two pictures of them on one hike, too.

I got the funniest mental image when you said there was a campground full of roadrunners. ROFL. Katz

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o) I’ll be going on a trip in April… nothing terribly special – my LLL, John, and I are going to work an art show in Huntsville, Alabama.  We always have a great time when we travel and I usually report back Jill

Jill, We have a race at Memphis Motorsports Park in Millington, TN near the end of March. We usually start very early in the morning and finish late afternoon so there’s no time to get away for a visit, but if you would be at all interested you could come out to the track and visit, watch some races and go to dinner with us (my treat). Julie

Response:

in message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Someone had posted to the mailing list the details of a really nice trip they took. Just as we have on this newsgroup, that mailing list has members from countries around the world. So I made a suggestion. Everyone on the list couldn’t afford to take a long or exotic vacation, but we all COULD recount our own experiences on things like day trips or little mini-vacations that take place close to (our own) home. Even if those details seem mundane and familiar to US, there are sure to be other members of the group who will find the information to be new and interesting. We got some amazing posts from people, once they started to provide details of even little excursions. So… I’ll suggest the same thing here. Anyone who’s going on even a brief jaunt might want to consider posting the details here, even if they hadn’t originally intended to write about it. Then we can ALL keep having virtual vacations on a regular basis. )

I have a lease car from work, and as such, am contracted to do so many kilometres a year. If I don’t meet or exceed the target, the tax I have to pay on it substantially increases and I end up owing the tax man a small fortune. Last year wasn’t a problem, but the tax man doesn’t seem overly sympathitic regarding the last few months of pregnancy, childbirth and the first few months of a baby’s life and hte effect that has on one’s ability to clock up the km’s. So, in the space of 2 months, I have to do 10,000km of driving. The thought of just chockingthe car up, putting a brick on the gas pedal and coming back in 6 hours or when it runs out of petrol has crossed my mind several times, but I may as well get some *real* distance in too. So, ont he weekend, Joel, Cary and I went for a drive to Mogo along the coast road, travelling through all the coastal towns. Mogo is an old gold mining town and has its own zoo, so Cary got to see very big pussy cats (lions) for the first time in his life. He was more interested in being sick down my shirt…. Then we decided it would be quicker to go back home via the straight flat freeway at 100kphrather than going through the windy little towns at 50kph and stopping at all the traffic lights. So we headed up over the coastal range and the Great Dividing Range to a place where we thought we’d meet the Hume Highway. Unfortunately what we didn’t realise was that this lovely mountain road was actually taking us steadily south as well as west, so we ended up onthe outskirts of Canberra  - even further away from home than we were at Mogo. Still, we did get to see some lovely countryside, saw a classic Inland country town, Braidwood, unspoiled by the tourist industry (once the tourist industry gets to a town it filsl with antique shops and "quaint" coffee houses with exhorbitant prices. I want actual genuine small town feel, not ‘quaint’), and got to visit pretty much every Fast Food restaurant along the freeway back as Cary kept filling up his nappy and it was raining so we couldnt’ just drive with the windows open. 498km later, and we got home again, much to our relief. And we have to do that another 20 times before April 1st. *groan*. These are the times I wish Joel (or even Cary!) could drive. Yowie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o) I’ll be going on a trip in April… nothing terribly special – my LLL, John, and I are going to work an art show in Huntsville, Alabama.  We always have a great time when we travel and I usually report back Jill Jill, We have a race at Memphis Motorsports Park in Millington, TN near the end of March. We usually start very early in the morning and finish late afternoon so there’s no time to get away for a visit, but if you would be at all interested you could come out to the track and visit, watch some races and go to dinner with us (my treat). Julie

Julie, Will you be the one wearing a cat T-shirt? <G  Seriously, Millington is a bit of a drive since I’m out in Cordova.  And driving is not one of my strong suits; I really only drive where I have to when I have to.  It’s one of my phobias; don’t know why – I didn’t used to have a problem with it. Last year when I drove to meet John in Jonesboro, Arkansas, only 80 miles away, I was white-knuckled, holding the steering wheel in a death-grip all the way.  (Somehow I don’t think a visit to the race-track would help with this!)  I literally threw up as soon as I got into the hotel room!  And John wound up in the hospital and wasn’t able to join me, so I spent 2 days in a hotel in a strange town and ordered in Chinese food.  LOL  I literally dreaded the drive back home, but I left on Sunday and there wasn’t much traffic.  I’m much better at flying (I take cabs to the airport).  But thank you for the kind dinner offer  Hope you enjoy your visit!  Wish I could recommend restaurants in Millington but a search didn’t turn up anything that sounds good (to me).  You’ll have to head into Memphis for good eats. Jill

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I’m glad you liked my trip report so much  I always post about all my trips, so if you want to read about previous trips, of which there are many, just google me and something like "I’m back", "We’re back", "Back home", etc, etc… I’ve actually been contacted privately by email by complete strangers wanting travel advice in Thailand…which I’m always happy to provide — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Someone had posted to the mailing list the details of a really nice trip they took. Just as we have on this newsgroup, that mailing list has members from countries around the world. So I made a suggestion. Everyone on the list couldn’t afford to take a long or exotic vacation, but we all COULD recount our own experiences on things like day trips or little mini-vacations that take place close to (our own) home. Even if those details seem mundane and familiar to US, there are sure to be other members of the group who will find the information to be new and interesting. We got some amazing posts from people, once they started to provide details of even little excursions. So… I’ll suggest the same thing here. Anyone who’s going on even a brief jaunt might want to consider posting the details here, even if they hadn’t originally intended to write about it. Then we can ALL keep having virtual vacations on a regular basis. ) Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o)

Response:

in message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Someone had posted to the mailing list the details of a really nice trip they took. Just as we have on this newsgroup, that mailing list has members from countries around the world. So I made a suggestion. Everyone on the list couldn’t afford to take a long or exotic vacation, but we all COULD recount our own experiences on things like day trips or little mini-vacations that take place close to (our own) home. Even if those details seem mundane and familiar to US, there are sure to be other members of the group who will find the information to be new and interesting. We got some amazing posts from people, once they started to provide details of even little excursions. So… I’ll suggest the same thing here. Anyone who’s going on even a brief jaunt might want to consider posting the details here, even if they hadn’t originally intended to write about it. Then we can ALL keep having virtual vacations on a regular basis. ) Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o)

The most memorable vacation DH and I ever took was on a cruise from New Orleans to Key West to Cancun and back.  Forget all the Mayan ruins and stuff – what I remember the best is visiting Ernest Hemmingway’s house in Key West and the hundreds and hundreds of polydactyl cats roaming the premises! Hugs, CatNipped

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what I remember the best is visiting Ernest Hemmingway’s house in Key West and the hundreds and hundreds of polydactyl cats roaming the premises!

Aren’t those cats cool? That was the first time I was aware of polydactyl cats. When I adopted my crew, I considered a polydactyl, & probably would have named him Hemingway. Katz

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dgabriel-at-netaxs-dot-com) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Britta’s wonderful post reminded me of something that we did on a mailing list I belong to a while ago. Someone had posted to the mailing list the details of a really nice trip they took. Just as we have on this newsgroup, that mailing list has members from countries around the world. So I made a suggestion. Everyone on the list couldn’t afford to take a long or exotic vacation, but we all COULD recount our own experiences on things like day trips or little mini-vacations that take place close to (our own) home. Even if those details seem mundane and familiar to US, there are sure to be other members of the group who will find the information to be new and interesting. We got some amazing posts from people, once they started to provide details of even little excursions. So… I’ll suggest the same thing here. Anyone who’s going on even a brief jaunt might want to consider posting the details here, even if they hadn’t originally intended to write about it. Then we can ALL keep having virtual vacations on a regular basis. ) Donna, in need of any sort of vacation, virtual or otherwise ;o) The most memorable vacation DH and I ever took was on a cruise from New Orleans to Key West to Cancun and back.  Forget all the Mayan ruins and stuff – what I remember the best is visiting Ernest Hemmingway’s house in Key West and the hundreds and hundreds of polydactyl cats roaming the premises! Hugs, CatNipped

I saw those when I was in Key West when I was 15.  Too cool Dennis just saw them last April when he went to West Palm Beach for the simulator and took 2 days at the end to drive down to the keys. Unfortunately I couldn’t come because I had to entertain visitors here in Thailand.  Sigh — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

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I saw those when I was in Key West when I was 15.  Too cool

Have you ever been to the sunset ceremony at Key West & seen the guy w/the trained cat act? Amazing! One jumped through a flaming hoop. I have since seen a d*g/cat act by a fairly famous guy whose name I can’t remember. I think he’s from eastern Europe (?). The most amazing thing a cat did in that was to *walk* the parallel bars, w/the bars under his arms! To bring the cats out, he drove one of those little tiny clown cars, w/kitties perched everywhere. LOL Katz

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I saw those when I was in Key West when I was 15.  Too cool Have you ever been to the sunset ceremony at Key West & seen the guy w/the trained cat act? Amazing! One jumped through a flaming hoop. I have since seen a d*g/cat act by a fairly famous guy whose name I can’t remember. I think he’s from eastern Europe (?). The most amazing thing a cat did in that was to *walk* the parallel bars, w/the bars under his arms! To bring the cats out, he drove one of those little tiny clown cars, w/kitties perched everywhere. LOL Katz

*YES*  That was *way* kewl! Hugs, CatNipped

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw those when I was in Key West when I was 15.  Too cool Have you ever been to the sunset ceremony at Key West & seen the guy w/the trained cat act? Amazing! One jumped through a flaming hoop. I have since seen a d*g/cat act by a fairly famous guy whose name I can’t remember. I think he’s from eastern Europe (?). The most amazing thing a cat did in that was to *walk* the parallel bars, w/the bars under his arms! To bring the cats out, he drove one of those little tiny clown cars, w/kitties perched everywhere. LOL Katz

I didn’t see the trained cat guy because I don’t think he was doing it in 1987, but Dennis told me about him when he was just there.  He said it was totally cool and amazing. — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interestingly this is what I see in topozone – quite a few trails down to the river, apart from the lava falls trail. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=12&n=4008363&e=312683&s=25&size=l Any info/experience about other trails will be wonderful! There are at least twice as many foot paths in the Canyon as you will find in all the guide books (topos, especially old ones, show many of these). In addition to that, there are probably twice as many trails (people and animal) in the Canyon than appear on all the topos. And even beyond that, there are many times that total in walkable routes within the Canyon. Thus the possibilities are almost endless. But exploring in the Grand Canyon is very serious business. Technical climbing gear is a requirement, plus knowledgable partners. Landslides are routine and many trails end abruptly at one of those. Water is non-existent in most of these areas away from the river. The heat and sun will quickly cook your brain most of the year unless you are in top condition, desert acclimated, and know your craft very well. In short, this is not a game for casual hikers. Sorry to have to end this now without more details, but I’m packing the truck for the trip to Tuweep (and secret places beyond). Will be back Monday. (Hopefully .) Regards, Caveat

Thanks for the tips, and lets hope that you got back safe by now ! Please share your experiences as soon as you recover.

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Interestingly this is what I see in topozone – quite a few trails down to the river, apart from the lava falls trail. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=12&n=4008363&e=312683&s=25&size=l

P.S. What I think you are looking at on this particular topo is water courses (in blue), not trails (black dashes). Unless you are prepared as described above, and have several hundred feet of rappel rope, I wouldn’t suggest trying any of these ).

Response:

Interestingly this is what I see in topozone – quite a few trails down to the river, apart from the lava falls trail. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=12&n=4008363&e=312683&s=25&size=l Any info/experience about other trails will be wonderful!

There are at least twice as many foot paths in the Canyon as you will find in all the guide books (topos, especially old ones, show many of these). In addition to that, there are probably twice as many trails (people and animal) in the Canyon than appear on all the topos. And even beyond that, there are many times that total in walkable routes within the Canyon. Thus the possibilities are almost endless. But exploring in the Grand Canyon is very serious business. Technical climbing gear is a requirement, plus knowledgable partners. Landslides are routine and many trails end abruptly at one of those. Water is non-existent in most of these areas away from the river. The heat and sun will quickly cook your brain most of the year unless you are in top condition, desert acclimated, and know your craft very well. In short, this is not a game for casual hikers. Sorry to have to end this now without more details, but I’m packing the truck for the trip to Tuweep (and secret places beyond). Will be back Monday. (Hopefully .) Regards, Caveat

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. I plan to accomplish the following: 1. do the mt.trumbull loop, starting on the east side (near kaibab/pipe spring) 2. do the lava falls trail 3. drive back up to the west side. My questions: 1. how is the weather down there around the last week of november (based on experience or otherwise). 2. is the road drivable in a car at that time of the year? (so I can rent one instead of driving in my suv!) 3. Is it drivable in case of snow? 4. how much time does it take to go/comeback to/from east side off 389 to tuweep. 5. how much time does it take on the west side? (to/from 389/tuweep) 6. any advisable hints for photography – plan to use my 20-35mm wide angle! 7. any other info to skip certain portions to complete this trip due to short daylight hours. 8. at the worst I can stay overnight and camp/sleep in the car – hints welcome in case of a breakdown. Thanks!

Interestingly this is what I see in topozone – quite a few trails down to the river, apart from the lava falls trail. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=12&n=4008363&e=312683&s=25&size=l Any info/experience about other trails will be wonderful!

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I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. <snip

I’ll be heading up there for a few days this coming weekend, and will post on the current road conditions when I get back. http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g143028-d143488-Reviews-… http://www.dankat.com/swhikes/tuweep.htm http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUrl-g143028-d143488-r190650-e__2F__Att… Caveat

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. I plan to accomplish the following: 1. do the mt.trumbull loop, starting on the east side (near kaibab/pipe spring) 2. do the lava falls trail 3. drive back up to the west side. My questions: 1. how is the weather down there around the last week of november (based on experience or otherwise). 2. is the road drivable in a car at that time of the year? (so I can rent one instead of driving in my suv!) 3. Is it drivable in case of snow? 4. how much time does it take to go/comeback to/from east side off 389 to tuweep. 5. how much time does it take on the west side? (to/from 389/tuweep) 6. any advisable hints for photography – plan to use my 20-35mm wide angle! 7. any other info to skip certain portions to complete this trip due to short daylight hours. 8. at the worst I can stay overnight and camp/sleep in the car – hints welcome in case of a breakdown. Thanks!

I went to Toroweep in August, this year. We had a flat tire after 53 miles. Luckily someone at the ranger station helped us fixing the tire. We were the 3rd car with a flat tire that week! This tells you something about the road conditions. When wet the last couple of miles will be very very hazardous, due to the red clay and the rocks underneath. We had extremely sunny weather, and even saw a Californian condor flying over our heads, going from our to the other rim. Greetings, Jan Jongejan Dept. Comp.Sci.,                       Univ. of Groningen, Netherlands.

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It is a beautiful area that is infrequently traveled. For good reason. It’s sixty miles of dirt road, impassable when wet, not very good at other times of the year. I have seen small cars there and have wondered how they ever made it. The storm that has been drenching California has also hit parts of northern Arizona. You might be able to make it, but I would be very cautious. It is an awful long walk back.

Yes. I’d bring your 4wd, and plan on spending the night. The Toroweap CG is pleasant, you’ll almost certainly have it to yourself, and you’ll get a sunset *plus* a sunrise (weather permitting). Hmm, pretty sure the Toroweap ranger sta. is closed in winter. You might try calling Pipe Springs for road conditions, if the wet weather continues. Another possibility is the Forest Service office in Fredonia. The red clay gets *amazingly* slippery when wet (volcanic ash). Note that this area is *completely* uninhabited, so you would likely be on your own if you get stuck. Plan accordingly! The principal annoyance at Toroweap is the almost constant drone of tour planes going to/from Las Vegas. Perhaps it’s better in the winter, but I doubt it — a little snow brings out the planes! You might want to pick up a copy of Michael Kelsey’s "Canyon Hiking Guide to the Colorado Plateau", for this and future trips. There don’t seem to be many places he hasn’t been! Cheers — Pete Tillman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. I plan to accomplish the following: 1. do the mt.trumbull loop, starting on the east side (near kaibab/pipe spring) 2. do the lava falls trail 3. drive back up to the west side. My questions: 1. how is the weather down there around the last week of november (based on experience or otherwise). 2. is the road drivable in a car at that time of the year? (so I can rent one instead of driving in my suv!) 3. Is it drivable in case of snow? 4. how much time does it take to go/comeback to/from east side off 389 to tuweep. 5. how much time does it take on the west side? (to/from 389/tuweep) 6. any advisable hints for photography – plan to use my 20-35mm wide angle! 7. any other info to skip certain portions to complete this trip due to short daylight hours. 8. at the worst I can stay overnight and camp/sleep in the car – hints welcome in case of a breakdown. Thanks! — To reply, if ‘nospam’ is present in address, just remove it.

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I can’t comment on the route to Toroweap specifically, but I recently drove quite a bit of the same road on the way to Tuckup Canyon (it’s a bit to the east) and out of 60 miles, 57 were fine and 3 required 4WD and high clearance. It would have been impassible when wet, and as someone else mentioned, it’s a long walk out. You might or might not see someone else in a day’s time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. I plan to accomplish the following: 1. do the mt.trumbull loop, starting on the east side (near kaibab/pipe spring) 2. do the lava falls trail 3. drive back up to the west side. My questions: 1. how is the weather down there around the last week of november (based on experience or otherwise). 2. is the road drivable in a car at that time of the year? (so I can rent one instead of driving in my suv!) 3. Is it drivable in case of snow? 4. how much time does it take to go/comeback to/from east side off 389 to tuweep. 5. how much time does it take on the west side? (to/from 389/tuweep) 6. any advisable hints for photography – plan to use my 20-35mm wide angle! 7. any other info to skip certain portions to complete this trip due to short daylight hours. 8. at the worst I can stay overnight and camp/sleep in the car – hints welcome in case of a breakdown. Thanks!

— David Meiland Oakland, California http://davidmeiland.com/ **Check the reply address before sending mail

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It is a beautiful area that is infrequently traveled. For good reason. It’s sixty miles of dirt road, impassable when wet, not very good at other times of the year. I have seen small cars there and have wondered how they ever made it. The storm that has been drenching California has also hit parts of northern Arizona. You might be able to make it, but I would be very cautious. It is an awful long walk back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. I plan to accomplish the following: 1. do the mt.trumbull loop, starting on the east side (near kaibab/pipe spring) 2. do the lava falls trail 3. drive back up to the west side. My questions: 1. how is the weather down there around the last week of november (based on experience or otherwise). 2. is the road drivable in a car at that time of the year? (so I can rent one instead of driving in my suv!) 3. Is it drivable in case of snow? 4. how much time does it take to go/comeback to/from east side off 389 to tuweep. 5. how much time does it take on the west side? (to/from 389/tuweep) 6. any advisable hints for photography – plan to use my 20-35mm wide angle! 7. any other info to skip certain portions to complete this trip due to short daylight hours. 8. at the worst I can stay overnight and camp/sleep in the car – hints welcome in case of a breakdown. Thanks!

– To reply, if ‘nospam’ is present in address, just remove it.

Response:

I am planning a day trip to toroweap/tuweep in november (last week) – this year. I plan to accomplish the following: 1. do the mt.trumbull loop, starting on the east side (near kaibab/pipe spring) 2. do the lava falls trail 3. drive back up to the west side. My questions: 1. how is the weather down there around the last week of november (based on experience or otherwise). 2. is the road drivable in a car at that time of the year? (so I can rent one instead of driving in my suv!) 3. Is it drivable in case of snow? 4. how much time does it take to go/comeback to/from east side off 389 to tuweep. 5. how much time does it take on the west side? (to/from 389/tuweep) 6. any advisable hints for photography – plan to use my 20-35mm wide angle! 7. any other info to skip certain portions to complete this trip due to short daylight hours. 8. at the worst I can stay overnight and camp/sleep in the car – hints welcome in case of a breakdown. Thanks!

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Unless I was backing up someone else I always played Flamenco – no guts when it came to singing until I was much older. I passed the hat at Cafe Flamenco and another place — does El Gitano strike a bell with you? Both were holes in the wall, but the bigger clubs weren’t interested in flamenco unless you had a dancer. Do you remember Rossilino’s chess studio? I played one of his students to a draw one night – surprizing all three of us. No to both. I was ’strictly’ folk at that time. And a very poor chess player. But I do remember the day when somebody broke their leather guitar strap, and one of the girls standing around had just bought a hand woven Peruvian sash at "The Pinata Party" on W.4th St, and loaned it to him to use instead. We all liked the way it looked so much that after the cops chased us out at 5PM, we all went to  boutique and bought one for ourselves. That was the beginning of the decorated woven guitar straps, which later went on to become mounted on plastic and mass produced and available in every guitar shop. I’m still using the one I bought in 1963… no plastic backing and a lot dirtier. In fact, if you look at the Sunday center spread done about folk music in the Village for one weekend in May in ‘64 in the N.Y. Daily News, you can see me playing with a group of other folkies, all using these straps. I was working a Harmony ‘Sovereign’ I bought third hand, ’supposedly’ originally John Sebastian’s. Had great sound for a cheap guitar. Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand I (almost) hate to admit, but you guys are pretty cool!

No… just old.  *grin* Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand — I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I have not lived. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Unless I was backing up someone else I always played Flamenco – no guts when it came to singing until I was much older. I passed the hat at Cafe Flamenco and another place — does El Gitano strike a bell with you? Both were holes in the wall, but the bigger clubs weren’t interested in flamenco unless you had a dancer. Do you remember Rossilino’s chess studio? I played one of his students to a draw one night – surprizing all three of us. No to both. I was ’strictly’ folk at that time. And a very poor chess player. But I do remember the day when somebody broke their leather guitar strap, and one of the girls standing around had just bought a hand woven Peruvian sash at "The Pinata Party" on W.4th St, and loaned it to him to use instead. We all liked the way it looked so much that after the cops chased us out at 5PM, we all went to  boutique and bought one for ourselves. That was the beginning of the decorated woven guitar straps, which later went on to become mounted on plastic and mass produced and available in every guitar shop. I’m still using the one I bought in 1963… no plastic backing and a lot dirtier. In fact, if you look at the Sunday center spread done about folk music in the Village for one weekend in May in ‘64 in the N.Y. Daily News, you can see me playing with a group of other folkies, all using these straps. I was working a Harmony ‘Sovereign’ I bought third hand, ’supposedly’ originally John Sebastian’s. Had great sound for a cheap guitar. Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand

I (almost) hate to admit, but you guys are pretty cool! —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

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I saw Dave a couple times at Caffe Lena (the longest continuously open coffee house in America) in Saratoga Springs.  I remember he had a great song that the lyrics were entirely names of New Jersey cities.

Response:

   Unless I was backing up someone else I always played Flamenco – no guts when it came to singing until I was much older. I passed the hat at Cafe Flamenco and another place — does El Gitano strike a bell with you? Both were holes in the wall, but the bigger clubs weren’t interested in flamenco unless you had a dancer. Do you remember Rossilino’s chess studio? I played one of his students to a draw one night – surprizing all three of us.

No to both. I was ’strictly’ folk at that time. And a very poor chess player. But I do remember the day when somebody broke their leather guitar strap, and one of the girls standing around had just bought a hand woven Peruvian sash at "The Pinata Party" on W.4th St, and loaned it to him to use instead. We all liked the way it looked so much that after the cops chased us out at 5PM, we all went to  boutique and bought one for ourselves. That was the beginning of the decorated woven guitar straps, which later went on to become mounted on plastic and mass produced and available in every guitar shop. I’m still using the one I bought in 1963… no plastic backing and a lot dirtier. In fact, if you look at the Sunday center spread done about folk music in the Village for one weekend in May in ‘64 in the N.Y. Daily News, you can see me playing with a group of other folkies, all using these straps. I was working a Harmony ‘Sovereign’ I bought third hand, ’supposedly’ originally John Sebastian’s. Had great sound for a cheap guitar. Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand — I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I have not lived. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

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   If you’ve never heard of Dave van Ronk – it’s too late now. I don’t think he ever appeared on television, he certainly was never in a movie. I haven’t even seen that many photographs of him. The records exist though. Perhaps a bunch of his stuff is available through those MP3 sites — they have Bartoldi, why not van Ronk.    I wonder if there is a folk music forum.

I’m sure other people will point you to rec.music.folk and other appropriate folk music forums.  Since this is a 35mm photography forum, when I get a chance I’ll scan and post some pictures I took of Dave van Ronk in the 80’s when he was touring with David Massengill.

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   Unless I was backing up someone else I always played Flamenco – no guts when it came to singing until I was much older. I passed the hat at Cafe Flamenco and another place — does El Gitano strike a bell with you? Both were holes in the wall, but the bigger clubs weren’t interested in flamenco unless you had a dancer. Do you remember Rossilino’s chess studio? I played one of his students to a draw one night – surprizing all three of us. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I simply don’t know any place else to post this.      I feel about the same way a lot of others did when word of the death of George Harrison hit. Dave van Ronk was not well known outside the "folkie" circle, but to those in it he was a giant. Thank you for posting this. I was one of those ‘folkies’ who was playing guitar every Sunday for years around Washington Square park during the early 60’s, and passing the plate in the Cafe Wa, Cafe Else, eating clams at Riennzi’s, and playing chess in the Fat Black Pussy Cat. I didn’t hear any news about Dave van Ronk’s passing (if never made the papers in Chiang Mai.) I share your feelings about his playing and his singing. I guess it’s time for me to get out my guitar and work up a medley out of respect. The music is ‘ runnin all ’round my brain. Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand — I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I have not lived. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

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Dave van Ronk  I simply don’t know any place else to post this.

You found rec.music.folk where some entries have been posted.  NPR redid parts of an interview with him done about 1996.  He was one of the quiet greats in folks music where many "stars" passed them by but didn’t forget.  He had a huge heart and a great talent.  We’re blessed with his recordings and those he helped. And by the way Waylon Jennings passed away today at the age of 64. Take care. –Scott–

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I thought we might combine these two off topics into a single subject and then everyone who wants to talk about either can do so in a single thread.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave van Ronk  I simply don’t know any place else to post this. You found rec.music.folk where some entries have been posted.  NPR redid parts of an interview with him done about 1996.  He was one of the quiet greats in folks music where many "stars" passed them by but didn’t forget.  He had a huge heart and a great talent.  We’re blessed with his recordings and those he helped. And by the way Waylon Jennings passed away today at the age of 64. Take care. –Scott–

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In a way music posts are not off topic in a photography group – it is amazing how many of us are both, and how many people I’ve known in my life that were both.   There is a bit of connecting tissue that appeared on the folk music forum written by a man named Dick Waterman. I can vouce for van Ronk’s WC Fields imitation, the rest — it’s probably true. The joke has been around as long as I can remember. "Dave did a terrific W. C.  Fields imitation and used it to great effect one night when photographer Jim Marshall walked into a club where we were passing the time and a few brews. Marshall was (and still is) very full of himself and needed no invitation to speak highly of his own accomplishments. So Marshall walked into the club and Dave spots him coming towards our table. Dave shifts into his very best Fields voice and says: "Here comes Jim Marshall, underdeveloped and overexposed." — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought we might combine these two off topics into a single subject and then everyone who wants to talk about either can do so in a single thread. Dave van Ronk  I simply don’t know any place else to post this. You found rec.music.folk where some entries have been posted.  NPR redid parts of an interview with him done about 1996.  He was one of the quiet greats in folks music where many "stars" passed them by but didn’t forget.  He had a huge heart and a great talent.  We’re blessed with his recordings and those he helped. And by the way Waylon Jennings passed away today at the age of 64. Take care. –Scott–

Response:

Hey, Tony, Remember the empenada stand next to the Hip Bagel on Bleeker St?  My mouth is still watering thinking about it! Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    His voice could and did make each and every song he sang into something more than the author intended. It occurs to me now that he should have recorded T.S. Eliot poems. "Duncan and Brady" a simple song about a bad cop and a good crook is practically grande opera when van Ronk sings it. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony  "And so we’ve had another night            Of poetry and poses      But each man knows he will be alone            When the sacred                        ginmill                             closes." Dave van Ronk I simply don’t know any place else to post this.     I feel about the same way a lot of others did when word of the death of George Harrison hit. Dave van Ronk was not well known outside the "folkie" circle, but to those in it he was a giant. He was a huge man – or at least looked huge to me, with a big voice, and fingers like sausages that could wrap around the guitar neck from both sides. He made bass slides with his left thumb while holding 5 string chords with his fingers. He could shout and wail and croon and make a song have more meanings than a T.S. Eliot poem. He was unique.    When I was in high school I used to take the bus to New York City on Saturdays to catch him or Judy Hensky, or The Tarriers, The Big Three (Cass Eliot and a pair of tall twin guys with 12 string guitars), and a lot of others who’s names are long forgotten. By the time the village clubs closed it was too late to get a bus out of the city so I would walk around all night and catch the 6 AM out of Port Authority. Besides setting my musical tastes that era also made me a noctonaut.    I spent as much time working on van Ronk’s "Saint Louis Tickle" as I did on Villa-Lobo’s "Prelude #1. I never could play it as well as him. No one could – not enough fingers. No one could sing like him, either.   If you’ve never heard of Dave van Ronk – it’s too late now. I don’t think he ever appeared on television, he certainly was never in a movie. I haven’t even seen that many photographs of him. The records exist though. Perhaps a bunch of his stuff is available through those MP3 sites — they have Bartoldi, why not van Ronk.   I wonder if there is a folk music forum. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ Tony: I didn’t know Dave van Ronk, Tony, but I am sorry to hear of his death and how it has affected you. My condolences. I’m just courious as to how he achievend more meanings than T.S. Elliott’s poems, through word play, emotional sub-text/undercurrent given by how he sang the words/melody, other means? Crerativity interests me a lot, so forgive me if I am being insensitive by asking this. Anyway, I’m sorry to hear of your sadness and hope that your emotions recover soon from this loss. Regards, Lewis I’ve set (anti-spam) controls to allow in only people on my list. If you want to be on my list contact me through the newsgroup. I regret the inconvenience. Thanks. Check out my photos at "LEWISVISION": http://members.aol.com/Lewisvisn/home.htm

Response:

 I simply don’t know any place else to post this.      I feel about the same way a lot of others did when word of the death of George Harrison hit. Dave van Ronk was not well known outside the "folkie" circle, but to those in it he was a giant.

Thank you for posting this. I was one of those ‘folkies’ who was playing guitar every Sunday for years around Washington Square park during the early 60’s, and passing the plate in the Cafe Wa, Cafe Else, eating clams at Riennzi’s, and playing chess in the Fat Black Pussy Cat. I didn’t hear any news about Dave van Ronk’s passing (if never made the papers in Chiang Mai.) I share your feelings about his playing and his singing. I guess it’s time for me to get out my guitar and work up a medley out of respect. The music is ‘ runnin all ’round my brain. Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand — I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I have not lived. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

Response:

Dave van Ronk was a big influence on all three you mention. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry to hear it, Tony, though I wasn’t familiar with him before this. Arlo Guthrie and Bob Dylan are as folksie as I get–though I guess I’ve listened to the Mammas and the Poppas, too. Matt +—Posted via NewsGroups.Com, Your Premier Usenet Provider—-+ | Over 80,000 Newsgroups – All New Servers, totally Uncensored |

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  She has a new CD out!  Nobody ever forgets Judy Henske either. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       Nobody, but nobody, remembers Judy Hensky.   Not even Judy Hensky most nights, I would guess.                          Bob Hickey http://photos.yahoo.com/rollei711

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      Nobody, but nobody, remembers Judy Hensky.   Not even Judy Hensky most nights, I would guess.                          Bob Hickey http://photos.yahoo.com/rollei711

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  "And so we’ve had another night             Of poetry and poses       But each man knows he will be alone             When the sacred                         ginmill                              closes." Dave van Ronk

… Was always a must go see in my culturally deprived Philadelphia circuit. After the folk music fad had faded, I’d always go see John Fahey (died last year), Ramblin’ Jack Elliot and Van Ronk when each would show up at the Main Point in Bryn Mawr. Van Ronk filling the room (& the block and the entire town) with his a cappella "Louang Prhabang" [spelling from a map, I don't know how Ran Vonk spelled it] was the stuff of which nightmares are made. Thought he might end up a commercial hit after he started doing stuff like "Would you like to swing on a star?" but that didn’t work out for him. 1966 someone had a Van Ronk LP with a green cover, had a song with the line "A red headed woman made a fool out of me." Old album, recorded years earlier. Always thought of that song as the very first folk-rock recording, had a beat similar to Neil Seddacka’s "Wanderer." Van Ronk never got credit for that either. Thanks for posting, Tony. Bill Jameson

Response:

I’m sorry to hear it, Tony, though I wasn’t familiar with him before this. Arlo Guthrie and Bob Dylan are as folksie as I get–though I guess I’ve listened to the Mammas and the Poppas, too. Matt +—Posted via NewsGroups.Com, Your Premier Usenet Provider—-+ | Over 80,000 Newsgroups – All New Servers, totally Uncensored |

Response:

   His voice could and did make each and every song he sang into something more than the author intended. It occurs to me now that he should have recorded T.S. Eliot poems. "Duncan and Brady" a simple song about a bad cop and a good crook is practically grande opera when van Ronk sings it. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  "And so we’ve had another night            Of poetry and poses      But each man knows he will be alone            When the sacred                        ginmill                             closes." Dave van Ronk I simply don’t know any place else to post this.     I feel about the same way a lot of others did when word of the death of George Harrison hit. Dave van Ronk was not well known outside the "folkie" circle, but to those in it he was a giant. He was a huge man – or at least looked huge to me, with a big voice, and fingers like sausages that could wrap around the guitar neck from both sides. He made bass slides with his left thumb while holding 5 string chords with his fingers. He could shout and wail and croon and make a song have more meanings than a T.S. Eliot poem. He was unique.    When I was in high school I used to take the bus to New York City on Saturdays to catch him or Judy Hensky, or The Tarriers, The Big Three (Cass Eliot and a pair of tall twin guys with 12 string guitars), and a lot of others who’s names are long forgotten. By the time the village clubs closed it was too late to get a bus out of the city so I would walk around all night and catch the 6 AM out of Port Authority. Besides setting my musical tastes that era also made me a noctonaut.    I spent as much time working on van Ronk’s "Saint Louis Tickle" as I did on Villa-Lobo’s "Prelude #1. I never could play it as well as him. No one could – not enough fingers. No one could sing like him, either.   If you’ve never heard of Dave van Ronk – it’s too late now. I don’t think he ever appeared on television, he certainly was never in a movie. I haven’t even seen that many photographs of him. The records exist though. Perhaps a bunch of his stuff is available through those MP3 sites — they have Bartoldi, why not van Ronk.   I wonder if there is a folk music forum. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ Tony: I didn’t know Dave van Ronk, Tony, but I am sorry to hear of his death and how it has affected you. My condolences. I’m just courious as to how he achievend more meanings than T.S. Elliott’s poems, through word play, emotional sub-text/undercurrent given by how he sang the words/melody, other means? Crerativity interests me a lot, so forgive me if I am being insensitive by asking this. Anyway, I’m sorry to hear of your sadness and hope that your emotions recover soon from this loss. Regards, Lewis I’ve set (anti-spam) controls to allow in only people on my list. If you want to be on my list contact me through the newsgroup. I regret the inconvenience. Thanks. Check out my photos at "LEWISVISION": http://members.aol.com/Lewisvisn/home.htm

Response:

He set a style still followed by many today, some of whom never heard his name.  I’ve often wondered what became of him – sorry this is the news.  Thanks for posting.                                    You take Mary, I’ll take Sue,                                Ain’t no difference ‘twixt the two…   "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to       listen to the rantings of those who can."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  "And so we’ve had another night            Of poetry and poses      But each man knows he will be alone            When the sacred                        ginmill                             closes." Dave van Ronk I simply don’t know any place else to post this.     I feel about the same way a lot of others did when word of the death of George Harrison hit. Dave van Ronk was not well known outside the "folkie" circle, but to those in it he was a giant. He was a huge man – or at least looked huge to me, with a big voice, and fingers like sausages that could wrap around the guitar neck from both sides. He made bass slides with his left thumb while holding 5 string chords with his fingers. He could shout and wail and croon and make a song have more meanings than a T.S. Eliot poem. He was unique.    When I was in high school I used to take the bus to New York City on Saturdays to catch him or Judy Hensky, or The Tarriers, The Big Three (Cass Eliot and a pair of tall twin guys with 12 string guitars), and a lot of others who’s names are long forgotten. By the time the village clubs closed it was too late to get a bus out of the city so I would walk around all night and catch the 6 AM out of Port Authority. Besides setting my musical tastes that era also made me a noctonaut.    I spent as much time working on van Ronk’s "Saint Louis Tickle" as I did on Villa-Lobo’s "Prelude #1. I never could play it as well as him. No one could – not enough fingers. No one could sing like him, either.   If you’ve never heard of Dave van Ronk – it’s too late now. I don’t think he ever appeared on television, he certainly was never in a movie. I haven’t even seen that many photographs of him. The records exist though. Perhaps a bunch of his stuff is available through those MP3 sites — they have Bartoldi, why not van Ronk.   I wonder if there is a folk music forum. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/

Tony: I didn’t know Dave van Ronk, Tony, but I am sorry to hear of his death and how it has affected you. My condolences. I’m just courious as to how he achievend more meanings than T.S. Elliott’s poems, through word play, emotional sub-text/undercurrent given by how he sang the words/melody, other means? Crerativity interests me a lot, so forgive me if I am being insensitive by asking this. Anyway, I’m sorry to hear of your sadness and hope that your emotions recover soon from this loss. Regards, Lewis I’ve set (anti-spam) controls to allow in only people on my list. If you want to be on my list contact me through the newsgroup. I regret the inconvenience. Thanks. Check out my photos at "LEWISVISION": http://members.aol.com/Lewisvisn/home.htm

Response:

  "And so we’ve had another night             Of poetry and poses       But each man knows he will be alone             When the sacred                         ginmill                              closes." Dave van Ronk  I simply don’t know any place else to post this.      I feel about the same way a lot of others did when word of the death of George Harrison hit. Dave van Ronk was not well known outside the "folkie" circle, but to those in it he was a giant. He was a huge man – or at least looked huge to me, with a big voice, and fingers like sausages that could wrap around the guitar neck from both sides. He made bass slides with his left thumb while holding 5 string chords with his fingers. He could shout and wail and croon and make a song have more meanings than a T.S. Eliot poem. He was unique.     When I was in high school I used to take the bus to New York City on Saturdays to catch him or Judy Hensky, or The Tarriers, The Big Three (Cass Eliot and a pair of tall twin guys with 12 string guitars), and a lot of others who’s names are long forgotten. By the time the village clubs closed it was too late to get a bus out of the city so I would walk around all night and catch the 6 AM out of Port Authority. Besides setting my musical tastes that era also made me a noctonaut.     I spent as much time working on van Ronk’s "Saint Louis Tickle" as I did on Villa-Lobo’s "Prelude #1. I never could play it as well as him. No one could – not enough fingers. No one could sing like him, either.    If you’ve never heard of Dave van Ronk – it’s too late now. I don’t think he ever appeared on television, he certainly was never in a movie. I haven’t even seen that many photographs of him. The records exist though. Perhaps a bunch of his stuff is available through those MP3 sites — they have Bartoldi, why not van Ronk.    I wonder if there is a folk music forum. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

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Question:

Awesome!!! Thanks very much. With your brief post, you’ve cleared up just a ton of misconceptions I had. Thank You!! Best jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1/60 is plenty high enough sync speed, and I don’t know of any 35mm SLR that’s much lower.  At 1:1, your effective aperture is two stops narrower than the marked aperture, which typically brings you down in the neighborhood of f32 to f64.  That will leave negligible ghosts on ISO 100 film, especially if you can bring just a teeny bit of shade to the subject, which usually isn’t hard in macro situations. See, for example  http://www.geocities.com/eurobago/prettypics/spider.html I took those at 1:1 and had to crop a fair bit.  I was shooting handheld, and the spider was extremely active.  It was much more challenging than shooting sports, because the spider was more active and less predictable than any human athelete I’ve seen. I shot those with my F3 at 1/80.  The flower had been in bright sunlight, but I shaded it just a little with the umbrella that I used to soften my flash. –Rich Only if you have a high enough sync speed I am trying to clear up some confusion I have about flash photography in macro photography. This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight?

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1/60 is plenty high enough sync speed, and I don’t know of any 35mm SLR that’s much lower.  At 1:1, your effective aperture is two stops narrower than the marked aperture, which typically brings you down in the neighborhood of f32 to f64.  That will leave negligible ghosts on ISO 100 film, especially if you can bring just a teeny bit of shade to the subject, which usually isn’t hard in macro situations. See, for example  http://www.geocities.com/eurobago/prettypics/spider.html I took those at 1:1 and had to crop a fair bit.  I was shooting handheld, and the spider was extremely active.  It was much more challenging than shooting sports, because the spider was more active and less predictable than any human athelete I’ve seen. I shot those with my F3 at 1/80.  The flower had been in bright sunlight, but I shaded it just a little with the umbrella that I used to soften my flash.   –Rich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only if you have a high enough sync speed I am trying to clear up some confusion I have about flash photography in macro photography. This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight?

Response:

    That may depend on the strength of the flash. The shutter speed will be tha same for any flash, but a stronger flash will allow for a smaller aperture, and therfore less chance of an image formed by ambient light. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am trying to clear up some confusion I have about flash photography in macro photography. This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight?

Response:

This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight? Only if you have a high enough sync speed

Depends on aperture and exposure compensation needed, of course. Bright sunlight can be remarkably dim, not registering on film even when using slow sync speeds.

Response:

If you use slow film and a small aperture you can nearly eliminate any exposure from the daylight, then the flash will freeze action. I would consider a pair of high power flashes units positioned on a Lepp bracket to concentrate the light on the subject. rich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am trying to clear up some confusion I have about flash photography in macro photography. This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight?

Response:

Only if you have a high enough sync speed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am trying to clear up some confusion I have about flash photography in macro photography. This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight?

Response:

I am trying to clear up some confusion I have about flash photography in macro photography. This will sound like a stupid question but here goes any way: Will a flash freeze action, even in bright sunlight?

Response:

Question:

This is great traveling tripod, recommended by  Popular Photography.  Does anyone have any experience with a quick release system.  SLIK does not offer one with this tripod.

Response:

I bought a Slik once based on a great review in Pop Photo. It was a piece of crap. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is great traveling tripod, recommended by  Popular Photography.  Does anyone have any experience with a quick release system.  SLIK does not offer one with this tripod.

Response:

I bought a Slik once based on a great review in Pop Photo. It was a piece of crap. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. A few pictures are available at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony

This is great traveling tripod, recommended by  Popular Photography.  Does anyone have any experience with a quick release system.  SLIK does not offer one with this tripod.

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Response:

Question:

I was wondering if anyone could recommend good honest websites with 35mm tips and which compare camera brands and accessories.  Thanks.

Response:

Take a look at photo.net — it’s a home to a LOT of honest and frank discussions on photography. Highly recommended. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone could recommend good honest websites with 35mm tips and which compare camera brands and accessories.  Thanks.

Response:

this site just rocks!! http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/entry.htm I was wondering if anyone could recommend good honest websites with 35mm tips and which compare camera brands and accessories.  Thanks.

– Remove the *NOSPAM* part in my email if you reply..

Response:

ke a look at photo.net — it’s a home to a LOT of honest and frank discussions on photography. Highly recommended.

I carried a Leica durnig WW II. You might want to look at my website. Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Response:

Hi ArtKramr,   Are you that handsome young guy in the wolf picture ?   You pictures are great. How old are you now ?   I am 29 years old now. Woo Chat Ming.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ke a look at photo.net — it’s a home to a LOT of honest and frank discussions on photography. Highly recommended. I carried a Leica durnig WW II. You might want to look at my website. Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Response:

ke a look at photo.net — it’s a home to a LOT of honest and frank discussions on photography. Highly recommended. I carried a Leica durnig WW II. You might want to look at my website.

Art, just out of curiosity, have you thought about sending out your photos for higher-quality scans?  (assumes you have the negatives) I’ve been scouring my grandfather’s house for the past couple of months, looking to see if negatives exist for the few photos he has from the Pacific and my grandparents’ wedding in 1946… no luck as yet.

Response:

Try this: http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. Old site with some pictures still up at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony The Homestead site has been closed due to a vast overbilling, and so funny goings on from Homestead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone could recommend good honest websites with 35mm tips and which compare camera brands and accessories.  Thanks.

Response:

Take a look at photo.net — it’s a home to a LOT of honest and frank discussions on photography. Highly recommended.

I’ll second that. There are many good sites out there, but photo.net is probably the best photography resource available online.   Tom

Response:

Have a look at Tony Spadaro’s site at http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/, lot’s of tips and advice there — <<

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone could recommend good honest websites with 35mm tips and which compare camera brands and accessories.  Thanks.

Response:

Question:

What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin?? Thanks

Response:

<< What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin??   Don’t know about the FASTEST method but what I use is this: (1)  Observe the IMAGE SIZE and PRINT SIZE values for your original art. (2)  Using FILE, NEW, produce a new frame that is dimensionally to your liking (1/4 " borders, whatever) and fill it with black. (3)  Copy your original art, and then paste in onto the new file.  It will automatically center. (4) FLATTEN the IMAGE and then close your original. (5)  SAVE the new as the old or create a new file name. done dan  

Response:

Tyler, For a simple black border, the easiest way is to set your background color to black, then increase the canvas size by a couple of points (more or less according to your taste) in width and height. Presto. (This will, of course, make your image just a touch larger.) A better (more precise) way requires a bit more work. Turn on the view of rulers, select the entire image, use the rectangular marquee tool set to subtract-from-selection, and drag an inner rectangle to include everything but, say, an eighth of an inch on each side of the image. Then fill the remaining selection with black. No plug-ins required. I use this approach a lot, but always fill the border as a separate layer, in case I later decide I don’t like it. And, of course, with either of these methods you can use any color you like. If you use the second method and plan to border a lot of images which have the same dimensions and resolution, create a file with an empty background layer and another layer containing only the border. Save it (with the background layer active) and use it from then on as a template. All you’ll have to do is paste an image into it and your border will be on the layer above. If you want to get fancy with your borders, you can do some nice stuff with the Extensis PhotoFrame package. BTW, there is a newsgroup, alt.graphics.photoshop where people would undoubtedly have even better ideas for you. Regards, Edward Craft – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Road Runner – Texas Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin?? Thanks

Response:

In Photoshop it’s easy.  Expand the canvas, select the blank area, fill with black.  Start with a wide black band and you can crop ’till it’s the width you like.  That’s one way. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin?? Thanks

Response:

My method is as follows:    Duplicate the layer with the picture. Increase the size of the dupe (for a 35mm frame I use 3 % for the longer side and 2% for the shorter. Fill the dupe with black or whatever colour you want. Move it down a layer so the original is on the top.     If you want to apply any layer effects to the "frame" it will work best if you turn it into an actual frame – like this:     Make the original into a selection Hole CNTRL while clicking on the layer in the layers pallet. Make the Frame layer active. Use the selection to punch a hole in the frame layer. Now bevels, etc will be applied to both sides of the "frame" giving a more 3d effect. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. Old site with some pictures still up at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony The Homestead site has been closed due to a vast overbilling, and so funny goings on from Homestead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin?? Thanks

Response:

Boy you’re doing a lot of work for nothing … see EDGY01 for the technique that works… (I use it too). Alan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A better (more precise) way requires a bit more work. Turn on the view of rulers, select the entire image, use the rectangular marquee tool set to subtract-from-selection, and drag an inner rectangle to include everything but, say, an eighth of an inch on each side of the image. Then fill the remaining selection with black. No plug-ins required. I use this approach a lot, but always fill the border as a separate layer, in case I later decide I don’t like it. And, of course, with either of these methods you can use any color you like. If you use the second method and plan to border a lot of images which have the same dimensions and resolution, create a file with an empty background layer and another layer containing only the border. Save it (with the background layer active) and use it from then on as a template. All you’ll have to do is paste an image into it and your border will be on the layer above. If you want to get fancy with your borders, you can do some nice stuff with the Extensis PhotoFrame package. BTW, there is a newsgroup, alt.graphics.photoshop where people would undoubtedly have even better ideas for you. Regards, Edward Craft Organization: Road Runner – Texas Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin?? Thanks

– Lert’s live longer. Be A Lert.

Response:

Canvas size will add a border.  You don’t need a plug-in for something this elementary.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the best/easiest/fastest way to the black border that I see around so many photos via Photoshop?? Plugin?? Thanks

Response:

I have the Extensis plug-ins, but for a simple black border, it’s not as easy as the method some have already mentioned of expanding the canvas when the background color is black. There’s an even easier way if you just want borders for photos that will be put on a website.  It’ll save a little bandwidth too.  All you have to do is place the photo inside a 1×1 table and specify the *border* width and color for the frame.  Make sure cell padding is at 0, and the frame is small enough so that it is automatically fitted to the photo when you insert it.  I used this method for a website I just made for my new baby niece which contained over 40 pictures, and by creating a template with a bordered 1×1 table to be used to set up each page,  it saved a lot of trouble.  You can see an example of how it looks here: http://www.geocities.com/emotion_kira/serious_stuff/cheekzilla.htm The inner bevel was created in PS but the black border is just the table border.  If you use Cascading Style Sheets (which I should have, but didn’t), it’s even better because if you decide one day you want the borders thicker or a different color, you can do it in one step instead of editing every single photo in PhotoShop.   Very handy if you have a large website.

Response:

Question:

  Spot metering, like any kind of metering, is a two edged sword. I’ve never found a real need for it – especially during the 3 months or so that I owned a one degree spot meter, but many others apparently cannot live without it.    All metering is a matter of experience. You learn how to use the meter to get what you want over time. Any meter will give you a dead wrong exposure if you use it wrong. Spot meters are simply the fussiest meters and therefore (technically) the most accurate. Here are some of the places where they could help, but common sense will help just as much.     Snow scenes with people – the spot meter can read the faces of the subjects (then add a stop) and you won’t end up exposing for the snow and coming out with a vastly under-exposed picture. OTOH you can simply open up two to three stops from the snow reading (according to the brightness of the day) and you will have a pretty good exposure.    Backlight scenes. Pretty much the same thing.    Dark places with bright lights – but you have to know how much to compensate for the brightness of the lights anyway.    Some people take a dozen spot readings of a landscape and do a lot of math – some just take a bracket of three shots and one will be right. (The origin of this technique is large format B/W Zone System shooting where there is a definate reason for doing this as the exposure and the processing are tied together in a complicated formula – in 35mm colour it’s usually an affectation. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. Old site with some pictures still up at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony The Homestead site has been closed due to a vast overbilling, and so funny goings on from Homestead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

    I might add one thing.  If you want to learn more about spot metering and why and how, I might suggest a book on the zone system.  The zone system uses spot metering information.  Notice: you may not be interested in the whole zone system, but as part of most books on the subject, they cover a lot of exposure and film concepts in ways that are important to understand for any photographer who wants to know better how to control his exposures. — Dia ’s Muire duit Joseph E. Meehan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I would not worry about it for now.  It is not the thing most new users are going to be able to use well.  Later when you find yourself saying, I really wish I had a spot meter, you may also know by then that the built in spot meters are not all that great.  Please note that is not to say they are worthless or should be shunned, but if you really need serious spot metering, then a hand held unit is the way to go.  Again the built in units can handle most situations calling for spot meters however. — Dia ’s Muire duit Joseph E. Meehan    Please note that this author is not the same Joseph Meehan who is a professional author of Photograph materials. In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

by the way, an average caucasian hand is about one stop brighter than a grey card, so you can meter your hand, add one stop, and then take that reading. works very well for landscapes…

Ooo, that’s different than what I’ve always read. I have read that the palm of the hand is about the same as the grey card. It always seemed that it was brighter, but that’s what I read.

I can certainly confirm what David is saying from my own experience — meter off the palm of the hand (caucasian skin), and the open up on stop from there. Outdoors, I probably use that more often than any other metering method. So frequently, in fact, that it’s become second nature and I don’t even realize I’m doing it anymore. I’m only reminded that I’m doing it at those instances when someone curious asks "why are you putting your hand in front of the camera?" My brother, however, is well familiar as to why I do this, and has no shame about doing a mock imitation of me when he’s holding his camera. As if this weren’t enough, he once sent me a photograph of an out of focus hand with a note which said, "Look, a CJ picture!" I guess if I owned a grey card I could figure it out in a hurry.

There was a time where I use to carry a grey card around everywhere until I figured out that using the palm of my hand and opening up one stop from there effectively accomplished the same result. I haven’t used a grey card since. CJ

Response:

… So if I buy the Canon Elan 7, which is what I plan to buy, The partial metering (10%) will work just as well as a spot meter, though I may have to zoom in or move closer to take my reading, due to the less precise meter? Am I understanding correctly? … The meter is just as precise, it just covers a wider area than true spot. Do read David Haardt’s reply to you as well, a very nice explanation of just what a meter is looking at.

Well, that’s what I meant by less precise, it is less precise in the same way that a crayon is less precise than a mechanical pencil…. Thanks for all your help guys. I feel much more confident now.

Response:

    I would not worry about it for now.  It is not the thing most new users are going to be able to use well.  Later when you find yourself saying, I really wish I had a spot meter, you may also know by then that the built in spot meters are not all that great.  Please note that is not to say they are worthless or should be shunned, but if you really need serious spot metering, then a hand held unit is the way to go.  Again the built in units can handle most situations calling for spot meters however. — Dia ’s Muire duit Joseph E. Meehan    Please note that this author is not the same Joseph Meehan who is a professional author of Photograph materials.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

by the way, an average caucasian hand is about one stop brighter than a grey card, so you can meter your hand, add one stop, and then take that reading. works very well for landscapes…

Ooo, that’s different than what I’ve always read. I have read that the palm of the hand is about the same as the grey card. It always seemed that it was brighter, but that’s what I read. I guess if I owned a grey card I could figure it out in a hurry.

Response:

<< In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering. Spot metering is just a very selective meter. It is only as good or as useful as your knowledge of where to point it and your ability to interpret the data you get from it. Point in the wrong place and you’re screwed. A spot meter is not a good tool for folks who don’t know what they’re doing and folks who do know what they’re doing only NEED it in a few specialized situations. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. When you need it or are ready for it, you’ll know . . .

Response:

In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering. Just one note on definitions: some cameras have partial metering that covers a wider area than true spot, in addition to center weighted metering and evaluative metering. In truth, the partial metering will do the same thing as spot.

So if I buy the Canon Elan 7, which is what I plan to buy, The partial metering (10%) will work just as well as a spot meter, though I may have to zoom in or move closer to take my reading, due to the less precise meter? Am I understanding correctly? I am being very careful about my purchase, and looking not only and what I want now, but what I will want five years from now also.

Response:

… So if I buy the Canon Elan 7, which is what I plan to buy, The partial metering (10%) will work just as well as a spot meter, though I may have to zoom in or move closer to take my reading, due to the less precise meter? Am I understanding correctly?

… The meter is just as precise, it just covers a wider area than true spot. Do read David Haardt’s reply to you as well, a very nice explanation of just what a meter is looking at. I used the predecessor to the Elan 7, the Elan IIe for three and a half years, using partial metering for most of that time. I found it better to compensate with the partial metering than with the evaluative metering. I got an EOS 3 at the end of June which has partial and spot metering along with center weighted and evaluative. I felt a slight pang when I discovered that on the EOS 3 partial metering was available only at the center focus point (on the Elan II/IIe [EOS 50] and 7/7e [EOS 30], it can be linked to any of the focus points). The 3 can link the spot metering to any focus point. Either spot or partial, you’ll be fine. Hope this helps, Bill Jameson

Response:

In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Just one note on definitions: some cameras have partial metering that covers a wider area than true spot, in addition to center weighted metering and evaluative metering. In truth, the partial metering will do the same thing as spot. Bill Jameson

Response:

If you are interested in doing Zone System photography (can be challenging with roll film) then a spot meter is indispensable to figure out the SBR (scene brightness range) by spot metering the darkest and lightest components. This way if you have a very wide range you can calculate development changes to compress it, and vice versa. To any great extent this only applies to black and white. Of course if your SLR has a spot meter it can be used to meter scenes for another camera, such as a sheet film camera to do real zone system work. -Josh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

any meter (handheld, center-weighted, spot) believes that the subject is 18% grey on average. the multi-zonal metering systems ("matrix" metering, etc.) try to compensate for that inability by comparing the light situation with internally stored template images. however this can be very tricky because you don’t know how and how much the camera did already correct exposure. that’s why most serious people don’t use multi-zonal metering systems when there is enough time, but they use either center-weighted (in the camera, or in a handheld meter) or spot (in der camera or in an external spot meter) metering. they do so because this allows them to correct for exposure without guessing what the camera might have done. if you meter a black subject and photograph it without exposure correction, it will appear too bright (i.e. average grey). if you meter a white subject and photograph it without exposure correction, it will appear too dark (i.e. average grey). so without exposure correction, black and white subjects will look the same on your image! that’s why it is crucial to do compensations. the solution might be a simplified zone system. if your subject is darker than average grey, underexpose by one stop compared to what the meter (center-weighted or spot) suggests. if your subject is totally black, underexpose by two stops. if your subject is lighter than average grey, overexpose by one stop. if your subject is totally white, overexpose by two stops. a spot meter allows you to exactly "place" a part of the subject on a certain zone. if you believe that the cap of the third man from the right is exactly average grey, than you can spot meter that cap, and take the meter reading for your image. the problem is that spot metering requires very much experience and knowledge about light and exposure. I personally in most cases prefer a center-weighted metering (with my camera, or with my Weston Master V selenium hand exposure meter), and then correct in a range of +/- 2 stops just as I explained above. this method worked very well for me so far, and I even exposed 4×5" large format chromes (Fuji Velvia) with that method, without any exposure "error" so far. ok, only 10 sheets up to now, but that’s due to cost by the way, an average caucasian hand is about one stop brighter than a grey card, so you can meter your hand, add one stop, and then take that reading. works very well for landscapes… ok, I hope this helps cheers, David Haardt r e m o v e   s u c k e r s   t o   r e p l y — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

if you can afford it, buy one with Bulb function, Spot meter, and manual override to let you specify the time and diafragm yourself. Than you have a camera that is ok for a photo amateur. If you just want to click and futher do nothing buy a cheap one. The spot meter can be implemented by walking to your subject and look what the computer says, hold these settings and walk back to take the picture. A second one is to measure your shadow and take that diafragm and time. Your shadow is a gray value just like a gray card someone mentioned before.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

I am one of "those" people OK, first of all, in most situations, you can’t get much better exposure by putting a 18% graycard in front of your subject, then walk fairly close to it and let the simple center-weighted metering in most cameras do the trick. Heck, most of the time, the sunny-16 rule works well too. The trouble comes in when the lighting is not covered by the center weight pattern, or if you want to expose for certain areas: 1) non-center weighted pattern. Backlightlighting, bright sun, etc. can fool the simple center weight meter. You then have the choice using the gray card and walk close to it, or rely on the smart in the cameras to figure out what the correct exposure is, or you can stand where you are and use a spot meter and spot an area in your picture that is close to 18%, in your judgement (!) Some cameras and spotmeters allow multiple spot readings, plus highlight and shadow bias. BTW, it is not that I don’t trust the little computers inside the cameras. I write compilers for them! I love the little buggers, but FWIW, I prefer to use spot metering because I know how *I* arrive at the reading. 2) "Unusal" Exposure. In this case, the scene may have too much dynamic range or again the lighting is unusual, and you want to either expose for the highlight or the shadow (and your midtone of course). I think this is another area where the spot meter is superior because I make the decision. For example, a strong backlight could be used for a dramatic silhouette or done for a burnout halo. You make the choice. Or a scene in the bright sun. Do you want the details casted by a rock to show up, or do you prefer the rock to be the "normal?" Again, your choice. So if really depends on your style and what you want to photograph. If you are happy with the camera smarts, that’s fine. The Ultrasparc or whatever in those cameras are more powerful than most PCs older than 3 years old so I’m certain they do a good job most of the time. You can even set a lot of the new cameras to do auto-bracketing, and choose the ones you like best. Certainly you can’t spot meter much with fast action sports. I used a spot meter capable camera for about 10, then switched to auto focus, auto exposure cameras, then back Hope this helps. — // richard http://www.imagecraft.com

Response:

In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

The value of spot metering becomes better known the more you begin to appreicate that any lightmeter can read light but can’t interpret what it reads — that’s still our job as the thinking photographer. So as one becomes more familiar with metering techniques, one more often deviates from what the lightmeter says, and from that, one starts wanted more exacting metering measurements from which to make good deviation choices. For myself, I never thought much about spot metering in my first few years of photography. At that time, I already had more than enough to learn, so it wasn’t all that much of a major concern. But the more I learned about lightmeters and what they can and can’t do, the more I began to appreciate where having a spot meter feature to my camera would be of benefit. Consequently, after a few years of shooting and when it was time to get my next generation of camera, one of the features I look for was it’s ability to give me a couple of metering modes (including as one of them, a spot metering mode). These days, I perhaps use it 30-50% of the time — mostly for still subject matter as oppose to things which are jumping around here and there. I suppose you could buy a camera like that now, if you wanted. But usually one buys a camera with such features after one perceive a need for it in one’s own shooting. As I said, I didn’t much think about it during my initial years of shooting, but only later after I well learned the limitations of my camera’s lightmeter and at the point where I was ready to by my next generation of camera. Hope that’s of some help (or at least does more to enlighten rather than just further confuse), CJ

Response:

The spot meter allows you to measure the light at specific points in the frame, so you can know exactly what is going to be exposed correctly. I use it most of the time and only don’t use spot metering when I don’t have time to figure out the lighting for myself – then I let the camera do it for me. For me, half the interest in photography is knowing the science of it and getting exactly what I want from a photograph. But then I don’t mind going out for 2 hours in the morning and only coming back with 4 or 5 exposures.  Realistically, my camera’s other (more automatic) metering modes would produce just as good a result in most of my pictures… but I wouldn’t have anywhere near as much fun. Don’t know if that answered your question. So in short, spot metering is used in tricky light conditions where the the camera won’t know what part of the picture you want exposed correctly. Ian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

In what situations, and how often is spot metering needed? ONly very expenisve Cameras seem to have this feature, but I keep hearing all these people go on about how they can’t live without spot metering.

Response:

Question:

I’m looking to start into photography for my first time ever. I’m primarily wanting to photograph at paintball tournaments so the camera must be able to take a beating, and also needs to have a fast shutter to be able to capture the paintballs(.68 caliber, 200mph) in air, if that’s possible. I’m also looking to spend anywhere in the $50-$150 range. What camera would you reccomend and why? Also, is there somewhere online where I could purchase the camera? Thanks, Steve

Response:

Steve Anderson  ….. I’m looking to start into photography for my first time ever. I’m primarily wanting to photograph at paintball tournaments so the camera must be able to take a beating, and also needs to have a fast shutter to be able to capture the paintballs(.68 caliber, 200mph) in air, if that’s possible. I’m also looking to spend anywhere in the $50-$150 range.

Steve, forget catching paintballs in the air. Even though 200mph is muzzle velocity, the balls are still too fast to catch even on impact.  If you are shooting to publish you’ll need a 35mm SLR set up, approval and cooperation from the organisers and referees, special protection on the field, and will be a major interference during a game. Shooting friends is much easier and cheaper.  I use a P&S for shots of signing up for a game, getting dressed and ready, pregame practice into a roped-off area, getting a velocity check, dead players out of the game and so on.  You can set up shots with players behind a tree, in the bushes, etc. before a game starts. During a game the best camera to use is a $12 disposable.  If you are running with 2 or 3 friends in a group you’ll get some great close up shots. It takes practice to shoot one-handed with your face mask on, clutching your gun, and your heart pounding, but great fun.

Response:

I was planning on shooting strictly tournaments and a few shots for the local field on their webpage. I’ve actually had the opportunity to take a few shots at a tournament already, the only barrier to getting on the field was that I had to have the agreement of both captains, which wasn’t that hard at all. I referee at a local field and I know how to stay out of the way enough that I think it wouldn’t be too much of a problem. Most of the photography would be on sup air, speedball, and hyperball fields so the brush, and trees wouldn’t be an obstacle. I just wanted to make sure I have the right equipment to do so, I thought it’d be something fun to do when I’m not playing or reffing. What exactly does SLR stand for? I’m sorry if that’s a stupid question, but I’ve honestly had no experience whatsoever with cameras other than my parent’s cheap 35mm’s. Is there a particular camera you’d reccomend? Thanks for your help, Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve Anderson  ….. I’m looking to start into photography for my first time ever. I’m primarily wanting to photograph at paintball tournaments so the camera must be able to take a beating, and also needs to have a fast shutter to be able to capture the paintballs(.68 caliber, 200mph) in air, if that’s possible. I’m also looking to spend anywhere in the $50-$150 range. Steve, forget catching paintballs in the air. Even though 200mph is muzzle velocity, the balls are still too fast to catch even on impact.  If you are shooting to publish you’ll need a 35mm SLR set up, approval and cooperation from the organisers and referees, special protection on the field, and will be a major interference during a game. Shooting friends is much easier and cheaper.  I use a P&S for shots of signing up for a game, getting dressed and ready, pregame practice into a roped-off area, getting a velocity check, dead players out of the game and so on.  You can set up shots with players behind a tree, in the bushes, etc. before a game starts. During a game the best camera to use is a $12 disposable.  If you are running with 2 or 3 friends in a group you’ll get some great close up shots. It takes practice to shoot one-handed with your face mask on, clutching your gun, and your heart pounding, but great fun.

Response:

Steve Anderson  wrote.. I was planning on shooting strictly tournaments and a few shots for the local field on their webpage.

Sorry, my only experience has been as a participant at field games, not tournaments. What exactly does SLR stand for?

Single Lens Reflex camera, with interchangeable lenses.

Response:

the paintballs(.68 caliber, 200mph) in air, if that’s possible. I’m also looking to spend anywhere in the $50-$150 range. Steve, forget catching paintballs in the air. Even though 200mph is muzzle velocity, the balls are still too fast to catch even on impact.  If you

are Not true … just shoot the ball straight at the lens Ian

Response:

I’m looking to start into photography for my first time ever. I’m primarily wanting to photograph at paintball tournaments so the camera must be able to take a beating, and also needs to have a fast shutter to be able to capture the paintballs(.68 caliber, 200mph) in air, if that’s possible. I’m also looking to spend anywhere in the $50-$150 range. What camera would you reccomend and why? Also, is there somewhere online where I could purchase the camera?

Steve, your problem is likely to be that the ball just move too fast. Look at the figures (approximations done in the head but pretty close): 200 mph = approx 270 ft/sec at 1/1000 sec exposure the ball therefore moves about 3 inches (4-5 times its own diameter) even at 1/8000 sec (fastest speed on most top pro cameras) it will move 3/8 inch (about half its diameter). I would suggest that at 1/4000 or 1/8000 you may see a blur, if the ball is brightly coloured, otherwise not much at all. Also, you will be surprised just how small the image of the ball will be using a normal lens; you will need a fairly long lens to make it show up. Getting an exposure of 1/4000 sec will need very fast film or very bright light, and preferably both. As someone else said, the movement of the ball (relative to the film frame) will be much less if it is travelling almost towards or away from the camera. So, you best bet is to use a very fast film (ISO 1600 or better) on a very bright day, standing behind the shoulder of the firer and photographing along the line of the shot. You will have to take a guess about focussing, exposure will be about 1/4000 at f/8, set it about half way between shooter and target for a guess. You then just have the problem of timing the shot. Doing this without some automation will be a very frustrating experience, you will burn a lot of film and may still not catch the ball in flight. Catching the burst as it hits would probably be a lot easier. As you can imaging, this would probably involve a lot of expense and still may not work as you wish. Sounds fun though; good luck. — David Littlewood

Response:

Thanks for the help guys. I’ve looked through many many magazines and like you’ve all said, most of the images with the paint in the air are very blurry, although maybe if I could stage a few shots where the balls where slowed down to half that speed I could get a better image.. I’ve put a lot of thought into it lately, and plan on trying a few trial shots tomorrow at the field I work at just for fun. Thanks again for all the help, Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to start into photography for my first time ever. I’m primarily wanting to photograph at paintball tournaments so the camera must be able to take a beating, and also needs to have a fast shutter to be able to capture the paintballs(.68 caliber, 200mph) in air, if that’s possible. I’m also looking to spend anywhere in the $50-$150 range. What camera would you reccomend and why? Also, is there somewhere online where I could purchase the camera? Steve, your problem is likely to be that the ball just move too fast. Look at the figures (approximations done in the head but pretty close): 200 mph = approx 270 ft/sec at 1/1000 sec exposure the ball therefore moves about 3 inches (4-5 times its own diameter) even at 1/8000 sec (fastest speed on most top pro cameras) it will move 3/8 inch (about half its diameter). I would suggest that at 1/4000 or 1/8000 you may see a blur, if the ball is brightly coloured, otherwise not much at all. Also, you will be surprised just how small the image of the ball will be using a normal lens; you will need a fairly long lens to make it show up. Getting an exposure of 1/4000 sec will need very fast film or very bright light, and preferably both. As someone else said, the movement of the ball (relative to the film frame) will be much less if it is travelling almost towards or away from the camera. So, you best bet is to use a very fast film (ISO 1600 or better) on a very bright day, standing behind the shoulder of the firer and photographing along the line of the shot. You will have to take a guess about focussing, exposure will be about 1/4000 at f/8, set it about half way between shooter and target for a guess. You then just have the problem of timing the shot. Doing this without some automation will be a very frustrating experience, you will burn a lot of film and may still not catch the ball in flight. Catching the burst as it hits would probably be a lot easier. As you can imaging, this would probably involve a lot of expense and still may not work as you wish. Sounds fun though; good luck. — David Littlewood

Response:

Steve Anderson  wrote.. What exactly does SLR stand for? Single Lens Reflex camera, with interchangeable lenses.

Not necessary to have interchangeable lenses. Many SLRs like the Olympus ZLRs and some digital cameras have fixed lenses.

Response:

Question:

DItto!  I wouldn’t chance that for $30-40.  Come on! dan

Response:

B&H without a doubt.  Bought my F100 there and many hundreds of dollars worth of other equipment..  Recently purchased a Sony PC110 video camera. Asked for regular deliver (NY to Boston). and got it THE NEX DAY. Didn’t like it the video camera.  B&H took it back without question.  I upgraded and can’t say enough good things about them.  And it doesn’t hurt that their prices are among the best around.  BTW, sometimes they’ll match Cameraworld’s prices. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used B&H many times with good results and recommend them highly, but I bought my N80 from TriState for a good deal less.  30 to 40 $’s  less as I remember.  Received it quickly.  No problems. BBFoto Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response:

Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Chris,    I have used B+H with much success.  No problems with them at all.  I wanna add that I have pretty much ceased my mail order purchasing because have liked my dealings with Samys in my local area.  They often have "in store" specials on merchandise that they don’t put on the web and that beat other web pricing.  For example, my F100, though a factory refurb, was $799.  I had plenty of time to look at it, run it through it’s paces then decide, plus get a warantee and a guarantee in case there is a problem.  I bought my F100 and my 300/f4 that way, saved a bunch of money.  I also like the personal attention and the ability to touch and feel…They will generally match or beat web pricing in store as well so you can still get the great pricing.  If you live near a good camera store give them a try…ask if they will match B+H pricing, and you may be surprised…Good luck and enjoy! JR

Response:

Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

They’re both great palces to buy, but may I add anoher?? Try Roberts imaging, you get B&H prices & friendly One on One service, 1-800-726-5544 Ask for Christy. The prices that Roberts have on their Web page www.robertsimaging.com are ussually MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) If you call them, you get the "BEST" price:-) Good luck, great choices!! Y —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!dns.phoenix-ag.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online .de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!uunet!osa.uu.net!sac.u u.net!lax.uu.net!news.navix.net!u.n.a.c.4.n.c.3.l.l.e.r Newsgroups: opera.test,news.admin.censorship,alt.test,rec.photo.equipment.35mm Organization: Navix Internet Subscribers Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.102.15.34 X-No-Archive: yes Comment: Dude, where’s my NewsAgent? Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40290662 autocancel

Response:

Chris I bought my F100 and AF-S 80-200 from B&H ( not at the same time though ). In both cases received them the next day. These guys are honest and professional. Mark Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

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Response:

I’d go with B&H. Cameraworld has their collective heads up their collective — To put it another way, while they aren’t criminals, they do think they are doing you a big favour accepting your money. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. Old site with some pictures still up at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony The Homestead site has been closed due to a vast overbilling, and so funny goings on from Homestead.

Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

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Response:

You can trust both without any worries.  I have bought several items from B&H and they are my seller of choice.  I only bought from Camera World once but it was a very good experience. — Sam Anderson

Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

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Response:

Chris,      You won’t go wrong with B&H, but Adorama is usually 10% less when you call them and very reliable.  Good luck

Response:

I have used B&H many times with good results and recommend them highly, but I bought my N80 from TriState for a good deal less.  30 to 40 $’s  less as I remember.  Received it quickly.  No problems. BBFoto – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response:

Regarding TriState… Do you feel lucky? In order of preference: B&H, Adorama, CameraWorld, Samy’s, KEH. Most of the others are bait and switch artists. — ***** SPAM BLOCK – PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO REPLY BY E-MAIL *****

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used B&H many times with good results and recommend them highly, but I bought my N80 from TriState for a good deal less.  30 to 40 $’s  less as I remember.  Received it quickly.  No problems. BBFoto Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response:

  Hey — if that’s what the job consists of – I’m sending my resume. I haven’t had a chance to really "do" my nails for decades! — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. Old site with some pictures still up at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony The Homestead site has been closed due to a vast overbilling, and so funny goings on from Homestead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <(But Henry gets mad at me when I send my orders to him instead of to the order department, so be SURE to send them directly to the order department. If there ‘happens to be’ any problem, THEN Henry will fix it. He’s damn good at that!) ROFL. Not <mad, exactly, but with 100+ e-mails some days plus other stuff to do (after all I am SUPPOSED to be a "manager" after all) and with a staff of 100+ sales associates who do nothing all day but orange-stick their cuticles, read the Times, check their stock portfolios, and plan exotic vacations, what’s a chap to say…? regards, Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Response:

<< can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? Chris, If you want to get those items in a simple, non-complex way, just go with B&H. CameraWorld drives me nuts with their inability to handle the simplest of transactions.  B&H will confirm your order almost immediately with an email, and within 24 hrs will ship it, and send you a follow up email citing the tracking number with UPS.  Hands down the best online method.  I suggested to CameraWorld’s president that he actually take a trip out to B&H to check out their operation,–but don’t know if he’s bothered yet. Dan Lindsay Santa Barbara  

Response:

I would add that KEH in Atlanta is a fine outfit and I would put them on par with B&H.  I have never had any problems with them.  In fact, I used to run into King Grant (owner of KEH) at camera shows in Texas while he was buying used equipment for the company.  One of the finest men I have met in the camera business and consistently gave the fairest offers. B&H is WONDERFUL to buy from on-line or over the phone.  Due to the hectic nature of a New York City camera store I will not shop there.  Been there, done that, not pleasant for a southern boy like me.  Don’t get me wrong, there were helpful and had everything you could imagine.  I just did not care for the crowd or the steps required to actually purchase something there.  They do it for their protection and I understand.  GREAT outfit though. — Sam Anderson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? Chris, If you want to get those items in a simple, non-complex way, just go with B&H. CameraWorld drives me nuts with their inability to handle the simplest of transactions.  B&H will confirm your order almost immediately with an email, and within 24 hrs will ship it, and send you a follow up email citing the tracking number with UPS.  Hands down the best online method.  I suggested to CameraWorld’s president that he actually take a trip out to B&H to check out their operation,–but don’t know if he’s bothered yet. Dan Lindsay Santa Barbara

Response:

<(But Henry gets mad at me when I send my orders to him instead of to the order department, so be SURE to send them directly to the order department. If there ‘happens to be’ any problem, THEN Henry will fix it. He’s damn good at that!) ROFL. Not <mad, exactly, but with 100+ e-mails some days plus other stuff to do (after all I am SUPPOSED to be a "manager" after all) and with a staff of 100+ sales associates who do nothing all day but orange-stick their cuticles, read the Times, check their stock portfolios, and plan exotic vacations, what’s a chap to say…? regards, Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Response:

Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information.

I’ll second the recommendation for B&H. I ALWAYS get good service from them, and never a problem. (But Henry gets mad at me when I send my orders to him instead of to the order department, so be SURE to send them directly to the order department. If there ‘happens to be’ any problem, THEN Henry will fix it. He’s damn good at that!) They have shipped to me in Japan and they have shipped to me in Thailand. Never missed an item, and never had any delays that weren’t caused by local corruption. (And even Henry can’t fix THAT!) Steve Kramer Chiang Mai, Thailand — I wish to live my life deliberately, to front the essential facts of life; to suck the very marrow of life and see if I can learn what it has to teach, and not, when it comes my time to die, discover that I have not lived. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

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Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Chris,         I have heard a few negative comments concerning CameraWorld. Depending on your location….KEH in Atlanta has provided excellent service as well.  B&H is excellent as well…and I like their online order tracking system.. cheers, pcollie Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com    With NINE Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

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Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

They’re both great palces to buy, but may I add anoher?? Try Roberts imaging, you get B&H prices & friendly One on One service, 1-800-726-5544 Ask for Christy. The prices that Roberts have on their Web page www.robertsimaging.com are ussually MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) If you call them, you get the "BEST" price:-) Good luck, great choices!! Y —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Chris I bought my F100 and AF-S 80-200 from B&H ( not at the same time though ). In both cases received them the next day. These guys are honest and professional. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response:

I’d go with B&H. Cameraworld has their collective heads up their collective — To put it another way, while they aren’t criminals, they do think they are doing you a big favour accepting your money. — http://home.nc.rr.com/tspadaro/ The Camera-ist’s Manifesto a Radical approach to photography. Old site with some pictures still up at http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/magor/tony The Homestead site has been closed due to a vast overbilling, and so funny goings on from Homestead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response:

Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com???  Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response:

You can trust both without any worries.  I have bought several items from B&H and they are my seller of choice.  I only bought from Camera World once but it was a very good experience. — Sam Anderson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have decided to step up to F100 and 80-200mm AF-S lens.  Now, the question is, can I trust mail-order companies like B&H and CameraWorld.com??? Anyone have bad experience with mail order company? I’d appreciate any information. Chris

Response: