Question:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it), I would like to know how good these lenses (from any manufacturer) perform in general and especially at full aperture.
I had that very same lens for my MINOLTA XK, I loved it sorry I give it up, it was a fine lens, but it was/is a little heavy. Vince Check out my web-site http://www.holvbphoto.com More user friendly then ever see the new stars
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. In fact, you can even use this lens on the Nikon auto focus cameras in manual mode. No, you can’t. The pre-AI lenses will physically fit, but will crush the metering tab on modern AF bodies, permanently screwing your meter on your camera, therefore pre-AI lenses have to be AI’d in order to be safely used on these bodies. I’ve heard several people say what you said but a local photographer I have worked with uses non-AI (not converted to AI) lens on his Nikon 8008 and N90 and still has metering with the auto focus lens.. He also has some AI lens he also uses..
He’s damned lucky. Sometimes you can get away with it for a while, until you twist the lens on or off particularly roughly. Not a risk I would take with any camera body, even if I had only paid a tenner for it! Ahriman
Response:
No, you can’t. The pre-AI lenses will physically fit,
Well no. 1.8/85 Nikkor K on F50. The lens can’t be mounted, and the back elements of the lens (not glass, just the metal mount) left a shiny scratch inside the F50 mirror housing. So be careful 
but will crush the metering tab on modern AF bodies.
some just bend it slightly, which will be ok if you don’t changes lenses 100 times a day. For example the 1.8/85 K did fit on my FM2, and on the F3 as well, without flipping the metering lever out of the way. I still converted it because I don’t like doing stopped down metering. Regards, Chris
Response:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, I know there have been 135mm f/1.8 lenses (e. g. by Pentax and Cambron), and there are e. g. 135mm f/2 lenses by Nikon and Zeiss (Contax). The construction is relatively simple (a Gaussian lens like all the 50 and 85 mm lenses), but from the MTF charts for the Zeiss lens it can be seen that the lens is rather soft at full aperture (the contrast isn’t very high even for 10 line pairs/mm).
I’ve never heard anything particularly good about these third party fast 135mm lenses. I have a Minolta MD 135/2 which is a really amazing lens. I’ve never seen an MTF graph of it put the pictures it takes are brilliant. The use at available darkness seems to be limited additionally by the required shutter speed of 1/125 s, or do these heavy lenses balance so well that 1/60 s handheld at f/2 is still possible?
I’ve never had a problem handholding mine at 1/60th, if absolutely necessary. — Barry —— (I should put something down here).
Response:
No, you can’t. The pre-AI lenses will physically fit, but will crush the metering tab on modern AF bodies, permanently screwing your meter on your camera, therefore pre-AI lenses have to be AI’d in order to be safely used on these bodies. I’ve heard several people say what you said but a local photographer I have worked with uses non-AI (not converted to AI) lens on his Nikon 8008 and N90 and still has metering with the auto focus lens.. He also has some AI lens he also uses..
Cameras and lenses vary slightly. Sometimes you can get away with jamming a non-AI lens onto a camera, and other times you will damage the camera. If you have to use non-AI lenses and can’t get them converted, it’s best to get one of the cameras that can handle them by flipping the AI tab out of the way (Nikon FM, FE, and F3; Nikkormat FT3; I’m not sure about the F4 and F5; maybe a few others).
Response:
Why do you have to have it milled before use?? The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens.
No, they are not. Using a pre-AI lens on a Nikon FM2, FE2, FA, FM3A, EM, FG or FG20 will physically damage the plastic AI ring that surrounds the body mount. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
Response:
Why do you have to have it milled before use?? The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. No, they are not. Using a pre-AI lens on a Nikon FM2, FE2, FA, FM3A, EM, FG or FG20 will physically damage the plastic AI ring that surrounds the body mount.
I don’t know about the others but the FM and FE cameras has a flip-up tab.. Colyn Goodson Ft. Worth, Texas Leica Camera/Lens Information http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Veranda/9472
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do you have to have it milled before use?? The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. No, they are not. Using a pre-AI lens on a Nikon FM2, FE2, FA, FM3A, EM, FG or FG20 will physically damage the plastic AI ring that surrounds the body mount. I don’t know about the others but the FM and FE cameras has a flip-up tab..
Yes. That is *precisely* why I did not include them in my list! — Best regards, Anthony Polson
Response:
If you (generally, for all readers) want the best possible picture handheld, forget 35mm. You can spend as much or more on 35mm as on medium format and still have a tiny neg to show for it. Check out the Mamiya 7 outfits. Lenses as good as 35mm lenses, and negs so big you’ll wonder why you never picked one up before. And, you can use 35mm film if you so choose. Get the shot that counts. Equipment doesn’t count.
If you’re trying to get the best handheld picture in very dim available light, use a small format, not a large one. If I were trying to take low-light pics for a newspaper, I’d use an ENG (electronic newsgathering) video camera rather than a still camera. They have multiple CCD’s, with comparatively enormous pixels, so you can take very low-light stills at TV (basically 640×480) resolution.
Response:
"Your logic appears valid and I’d have thought the same thing, but in practice I can easily handhold exposures with a digicam that I could never get away with using a 35mm film camera." I wonder if this is because of the absence of the 35mm SLR mirror vibration in your digicam? I have noticed this benefit with my Leica M6 where I can consistently select one shutter speed slower than with my N70 or F3. In terms of digital for me the output is going to have to get a lot higher to match the chromes from my Leica and Hasselblad. I imagine that will happen over the next two or three years and then I will need to consider what to do…… Doug from Tumwater
Response:
"Your logic appears valid and I’d have thought the same thing, but in practice I can easily handhold exposures with a digicam that I could never get away with using a 35mm film camera." I wonder if this is because of the absence of the 35mm SLR mirror vibration in your digicam? I have noticed this benefit with my Leica M6 where I can consistently select one shutter speed slower than with my N70 or F3.
That’s possible, but I sometimes use leaf shutter rangefinders that should vibrate even less than the M6, and still get camera shake. More recently I’ve gotten an Olympus camera with an optically stabilized lens, so maybe that can manage even longer exposures. I’ll try some experiments. The camera I really want for low light, though, is a Sony VX2000 mini-DV camcorder with three 1/3" CCD’s. It won’t have quite the capability of a professional news camera but it’s about $2000 and the pro cameras start at $6000 or so.
Response:
Heinz: I only have practical experience with the Nikon 135/2.0 AIS, which is a Sonnar type design. I don’t find this lens well balanced at all, as it is very heavy and most of the weight is located near the front. Sharpness wide open is very good, although the assymetric design leads to coma at close focusing distances which limits performance. I have the lens prescription from U.S. Patent 4,062,630, and the MTF is pretty good out to the near edge of the frame (12mm from center) and declines gradually thereafter. Near the center, the design has a contrast of about 90% at 10 cycles/mm wide open, which is quite good. Real-world contrast will be helped by the very simple design with only 8 air-glass interfaces. I’ve taken a look at the design for the 135mm f/2 DC Nikkor also, and at the neutral position wide open it has similar wide-open infinity performance to the 135/2.0 AIS. The DC lens is a Gauss type that uses floating elements for focussing, so its close-focusing performance is better. 135mm lenses are pretty easy to design, even when they are f/2. Even high-performance f/1.4 designs are possible, although they require ED type glass. Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it), I would like to know how good these lenses (from any manufacturer) perform in general and especially at full aperture. I know there have been 135mm f/1.8 lenses (e. g. by Pentax and Cambron), and there are e. g. 135mm f/2 lenses by Nikon and Zeiss (Contax). The construction is relatively simple (a Gaussian lens like all the 50 and 85 mm lenses), but from the MTF charts for the Zeiss lens it can be seen that the lens is rather soft at full aperture (the contrast isn’t very high even for 10 line pairs/mm). The use at available darkness seems to be limited additionally by the required shutter speed of 1/125 s, or do these heavy lenses balance so well that 1/60 s handheld at f/2 is still possible? Nevertheless, better a soft shot at f/2 and 1600 ASA than none at f/4.5 (because the zoom lens is so slow…) Thank you for your answers – Dr. Heinz Anderle ("High-Mech" traditionalist – autofocus doesn’t work without batteries)
Response:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it), Why do you have to have it milled before use?? The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. In fact, you can even use this lens on the Nikon auto focus cameras in manual mode.
No, you can’t. The pre-AI lenses will physically fit, but will crush the metering tab on modern AF bodies, permanently screwing your meter on your camera, therefore pre-AI lenses have to be AI’d in order to be safely used on these bodies. Ahriman
Response:
The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. In fact, you can even use this lens on the Nikon auto focus cameras in manual mode. No, you can’t. The pre-AI lenses will physically fit, but will crush the metering tab on modern AF bodies, permanently screwing your meter on your camera, therefore pre-AI lenses have to be AI’d in order to be safely used on these bodies.
I’ve heard several people say what you said but a local photographer I have worked with uses non-AI (not converted to AI) lens on his Nikon 8008 and N90 and still has metering with the auto focus lens.. He also has some AI lens he also uses.. Colyn Goodson Ft. Worth, Texas Leica Camera/Lens Information http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Veranda/9472
Response:
The Pentax A 135/1.8 is an excellent lens, though a bit pricey, per user reports. (I can’t afford one.) But to your question: Pretty much every lens is better when stopped down. But that does not diminish a lens’ usability. In that light, here’s some considerations: #1 Some people consider a lens for its performance one stop down. That makes a 50/1.4 the best 1.7 possible. #2 Speed depends on the application. For PJ work, when it’s half-toned for a newspaper, resolution is insignificant. I’ll put a Spotmatic against F5 for image adequacy in that venue. #3 Don’t *depend* on PhotoDo ratings. The specs are useful, but don’t cover color rendition. Shoot with a lens to see if it gives you what you want/need. As with yourself, I’m also a bit of a traditionalist, using a Pentax ZX-M and MX bodies with just a few lenses — A35/2.8, A50/1.4, A100/2.8, and Tokina AT-X 80-200/2.8. I also use a Canon G-III QL17 and a Busch Pressman 4×5 with a late Xenar 150/4.5 in a Copal 1 shutter. My enlarger is a post-WWII vintage DeJur Versatile Professional 4×5. And, I’ve just begun using flash bulbs! If you (generally, for all readers) want the best possible picture handheld, forget 35mm. You can spend as much or more on 35mm as on medium format and still have a tiny neg to show for it. Check out the Mamiya 7 outfits. Lenses as good as 35mm lenses, and negs so big you’ll wonder why you never picked one up before. And, you can use 35mm film if you so choose. Get the shot that counts. Equipment doesn’t count. My2c, Collin
Response:
That would be the case if the old 1/focal length axiom can be applied lineally between different sized formats but can it? There is greater magnification of the digi image from the small CCD vs. 35mm for any given print size. This greater magnification directly corresponds to the reduction in focal length for the lens in front of the digital chip. As a result, the larger CCD magnification will emphasize the hand holding movement more than the 35mm format as the image is enlarged. Therefore, the focal length advantage of the CCD camera you speak of is effectively canceled out
Your logic appears valid and I’d have thought the same thing, but in practice I can easily handhold exposures with a digicam that I could never get away with using a 35mm film camera. "Olympus tends to use fast lenses on its digicams–one of their 2 megapixel models with the f/2.0-2.4 zoom should be inexpensive and hold as much detail in similar lighting as a relatively unsharp 135/2." I question this statement because first of all in low light the Olympus digi will need to use a faster ISO setting which will substantially degrade an already marginal 2 megapixal model.
2 megapixels is not really that marginal. People constantly underestimate how good a print you can make with 2 megapixels. A Nikon D1 is only 2.7 megapixels, remember. Secondly, the Soligor 135mm f/ 2.0 CD was a very good lens from my memory, certainly superior to the mediocre zoom optics found on $1000 5 megapixel cameras.
I’m pretty sure the Spiratone 135/1.8 that I have is the exact same lens, and it is very soft wide open. Walk into a low light room, load the film SLR with Fuji Superia 800 and I would expect the Soligor 135mm CD at f/2.0 to still surpass the output of a Nikon D1H with today’s top Nikon glass, in terms of resolution and contrast.
I’ll be happy to do that experiment as soon as you send me a Nikon D1H to do the comparison with. Especially if the top Nikon glass that you send with it is a 135/2 Nikkor or for that matter an 85/1.4 .
Response:
Paul wrote about available light and fast teles: "These days though, you may be better off with a digicam. Because of the small CCD’s, you get similar telephoto coverage at a much shorter focal length, which means you can use longer exposures." That would be the case if the old 1/focal length axiom can be applied lineally between different sized formats but can it? There is greater magnification of the digi image from the small CCD vs. 35mm for any given print size. This greater magnification directly corresponds to the reduction in focal length for the lens in front of the digital chip. As a result, the larger CCD magnification will emphasize the hand holding movement more than the 35mm format as the image is enlarged. Therefore, the focal length advantage of the CCD camera you speak of is effectively canceled out "Olympus tends to use fast lenses on its digicams–one of their 2 megapixel models with the f/2.0-2.4 zoom should be inexpensive and hold as much detail in similar lighting as a relatively unsharp 135/2." I question this statement because first of all in low light the Olympus digi will need to use a faster ISO setting which will substantially degrade an already marginal 2 megapixal model. Secondly, the Soligor 135mm f/ 2.0 CD was a very good lens from my memory, certainly superior to the mediocre zoom optics found on $1000 5 megapixel cameras. Walk into a low light room, load the film SLR with Fuji Superia 800 and I would expect the Soligor 135mm CD at f/2.0 to still surpass the output of a Nikon D1H with today’s top Nikon glass, in terms of resolution and contrast. Doug from Tumwater
Response:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it), I would like to know how good these lenses (from any manufacturer) perform in general and especially at full aperture. I know there have been 135mm f/1.8 lenses (e. g. by Pentax and Cambron), and there are e. g. 135mm f/2 lenses by Nikon and Zeiss (Contax). The construction is relatively simple (a Gaussian lens like all the 50 and 85 mm lenses), but from the MTF charts for the Zeiss lens it can be seen that the lens is rather soft at full aperture (the contrast isn’t very high even for 10 line pairs/mm). The use at available darkness seems to be limited additionally by the required shutter speed of 1/125 s, or do these heavy lenses balance so well that 1/60 s handheld at f/2 is still possible? Nevertheless, better a soft shot at f/2 and 1600 ASA than none at f/4.5 (because the zoom lens is so slow…) Thank you for your answers – Dr. Heinz Anderle ("High-Mech" traditionalist – autofocus doesn’t work without batteries)
Response:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it), I would like to know how good these lenses (from any manufacturer) perform in general and especially at full aperture.
The expensive ones like the Nikkor are excellent. The one that you have (do you mind if I ask how much you paid?) is probably the same as the Spiratone 180/1.8 that I have. It’s quite soft wide open. It’s ok stopped down, but the whole point of a fast lens like this is to use it wide open! The use at available darkness seems to be limited additionally by the required shutter speed of 1/125 s, or do these heavy lenses balance so well that 1/60 s handheld at f/2 is still possible?
Hmm it’s been a while since I used mine but yes I shot at 1/60th when I had to. Results were mixed. Use a monopod if you can, brace against a wall, etc. Nevertheless, better a soft shot at f/2 and 1600 ASA than none at f/4.5 (because the zoom lens is so slow…)
I agree, I usually used TMZ at 3200 to shoot chess tournaments for a local magazine. The magazine reproduction was bad enough that the lens softness didn’t matter, especially at small print sizes. These days though, you may be better off with a digicam. Because of the small CCD’s, you get similar telephoto coverage at a much shorter focal length, which means you can use longer exposures. Olympus tends to use fast lenses on its digicams–one of their 2 megapixel models with the f/2.0-2.4 zoom should be inexpensive and hold as much detail in similar lighting as a relatively unsharp 135/2.
Response:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it), I would like to know how good these lenses (from any manufacturer) perform in general and especially at full aperture. The expensive ones like the Nikkor are excellent. The one that you have (do you mind if I ask how much you paid?) is probably the same as the Spiratone 180/1.8 that I have. It’s quite soft wide open. It’s ok stopped down, but the whole point of a fast lens like this is to use it wide open!
I have paid 73 $ + shipping to Europe, this is still only 1/4 what the 135mm f/2 Nikkor would cost used here.
Response:
Since I have purchased a Soligor 135 f/2 C/D lens on ebay (from the 1970s, in Nikon F-mount, for a very reasonable price – I will have to have it milled to fit on the AI mount, after it has arrived, and before I can use it),
Why do you have to have it milled before use?? The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. In fact, you can even use this lens on the Nikon auto focus cameras in manual mode. I used this lens in the late 70’s on my Nikon F.. I’d be willing to bet after you try it, you’ll be dissappointed with the results.. It’s very soft wide open (which is fine for portraiture but not for landscapes) and not near as sharp stopped down as the Nikkor 135mm f/2.. Colyn Goodson Ft. Worth, Texas Leica Camera/Lens Information http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Veranda/9472
Response:
Why do you have to have it milled before use?? The non-AI lens are compatable with cameras made for AI lens. In fact, you can even use this lens on the Nikon auto focus cameras in manual mode.
That’s wrong, you can damage your AF camera that way. See www.aiconversions.com.
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